captioning funded by cbs and ford-- built for the road ahead. >> this is very improbable. this is not an interview i ever expected to be doing. there has been much speculation about the evolution of the relationship between president obama and secretary clinton. tonight you'll hear them talk about it many public together for the first time. i have to ask you, what's the date of expiration on this endorsement? >> oh, steve. >> you know, steve, i got to tell you, you guys in the press are incorrigible.

>> lance armstrong admitted to doping for the first time in an interview with oprah winfrey last week, but the director of the u.s. anti-doping agency, travis tygart, told us that armstrong did not tell the truth in the interview and left out the most important facts that investigators want to nail down. armstrong described doping as so routine it was "like the air in our tires and the water in our bottles." what did you think of that? >> it's just simply not true, and i think it's a pretty cowardly, self-interested justification or rationalization for his decision to defraud millions of people. >> i'm steve kroft. >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm morley safer. >> i'm bob simon. >> i'm lara logan. >> i'm scott pelley. those stories tonight on "60 minutes." ones,es you 1% cash back

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hillary clinton, and everyone has an opinion-- about their politics, their marriages, and a rivalry that is one of the richest in american history. on friday we had the opportunity to sit down with the two of them side by side. the white house offered us 30 minutes, barely enough time to scratch the surface of their complicated personal and professional relationship, let alone discuss their policies on iran and israel, russia and china, egypt and libya. there has been much speculation about their evolution from bitter opponents to partners in the corridors of power and the motivation for doing this interview. now you can be the judge. this is very improbable. this is not an interview i ever expected to be doing. but i understand, mr. president, this was your idea. why did you want to do this together, a joint interview? >> obama: well, the main thing is, i just wanted to have a chance to publicly say thank you, because i think hillary

will go down as one of the finest secretary of states we've had. it has been a great collaboration over the last four years. i'm going to miss her. i wish she was sticking around. but she has logged in so many miles, i can't begrudge her wanting to take it easy for a little bit. but i want the country to appreciate just what an extraordinary role she's played during the course of my administration, and a lot of the successes we've had internationally have been because of her hard work. >> kroft: there's no political tea leaves to be read here? >> clinton: we don't have any tea. we've got some water here is the best i can tell. but, you know, this has been just the most extraordinary honor. and, yes, i mean, a few years ago it would have seen seen as improbable, because we had that very long, hard primary campaign. but, you know, i've gone around the world on behalf of the president and our country, and one of the things that i say to

people, because i think it helps them understand, i say, "look, in politics and in democracy, sometimes you win elections, sometimes you lose elections. and i worked very hard, but i lost." and then president obama asked me to be secretary of state, and i said yes. and so this has been just an extraordinary opportunity to work with him as a partner and friend, to do our very best on behalf of this country we both love. and it's something i'm going to miss a great deal. >> kroft: it's no secret that your aides cautioned you against... actually were against you offering secretary clinton this job, and you were just as determined not to take it. and you avoided taking her phone calls for a while, because you were afraid she was going to say no. why were you so insistent about wanting her to be secretary of state? >> obama: well, i was a big admirer of hillary's before our primary battles and the general election.

you know, her discipline, her stamina, her thoughtfulness, her ability to project, i think, and make clear issues that are important to the american people i thought made her an extraordinary talent. she also was already a world figure. and i thought that somebody stepping into that position of secretary of state at a time when, keep in mind, we were still in iraq, afghanistan was still an enormous challenge, and there was great uncertainty in terms of how we would reset our relations around the world-- to have somebody who could serve as that effective ambassador in her own right without having to earn her stripes, so to speak, on the international stage, i thought would be hugely important. >> kroft: you've been quoted as thinking or telling people that there was no way you were going to take this job, and you weren't going to let anybody talk you into it. >> clinton: well, i would... >> kroft: what did he say that night that made you... >> clinton: well, i was so

surprised, because, you know, after i ended my campaign, i immediately did everything i could to help the president get elected, because, despite our hard-fought primary, we had such agreement on what needed to be done for our country. >> obama: made for tough debates, by the way, because we... >> clinton: it did. >> obama: we could never figure out what we were different on. >> clinton: yeah, we worked at that pretty hard. and so, i really thought i'd be going back to the senate, where i would be supporting the president on all of the issues. and what surprised me is, he said, "well, i want you to come to chicago." and honestly, at the time, i thought, "well, you know, that's a very nice gesture. maybe he wants to ask me about some people that might serve in the administration." so when i got to chicago and he asked me if i would consider being his secretary of state, i immediately said, "oh, mr. president, there's so many other people. let me give you some other names." because it just took me by surprise. but he is pretty persuasive,

i'll tell you that much. and he kept saying, "well, i want you to think about it again. i want you to wait a minute. don't make... don't give me a final answer." i'll tell you what i finally thought. i thought, "you know, if the roles had been reversed, and i had ended up winning, i would have desperately wanted him to be in my cabinet. so if i'm saying i would have wanted him to say yes to me, how am i going to justify saying no to my president?" and it was a great decision, despite my hesitancy about it. >> kroft: what did he promise you? and has he kept the promises? >> clinton: it was going to be hard. but, you know... >> obama: and i kept that promise. >> clinton: welcome to hard times, i mean, because the one thing he did mention was, he basically said, "you know, we've got this major economic crisis that may push us into a depression. i'm not going to be able to do a lot to satisfy the built-up expectations for our role around the world, so you're going to have to get out there and, you know, really represent us while i deal with, you know, the economic catastrophe i inherited."

but, you know, we're both gluttons for punishment. and, you know, my assessment was, "look, we are in a terrible fix." you know, i felt like this president was going to get us out of it, but it wasn't going to be easy. and it was going to need everybody, you know, pulling together. >> kroft: has she had much influence... >> obama: well, i... >> kroft: in this administration? >> obama: i think everybody understands that hillary has been, you know, one of the most important advisors that i've had on a whole range of issues. hillary's capacity to travel around the world to lay the groundwork for a new way of doing things; to establish a sense of engagement that, you know, our foreign policy was not going to be defined solely by iraq; that we were going to be vigilant about terrorism, but we were going to make sure that we deployed all elements of american power-- diplomacy, our economic and cultural and social

capital-- in order to bring about the kinds of international solutions that we wanted to see. i had confidence that hillary could do that. and, you know, one of the things that i will always be grateful for is... yeah, it wasn't just that she and i had to integrate. i mean, we had bob gates, who was a holdover from the bush administration, you know, leon panetta to take over the c.i.a., and so we had a lot of very strong personalities around the table. you know, i think one of the things that hillary did was establish a standard in terms of professionalism and teamwork in our cabinet, in our foreign policy making that said "we're going to have an open discussion, we're going to push each other hard; there are going to be times where we have some vigorous disagreements. once the president makes a decision, though, we're going to go out there and execute." >> kroft: how would you characterize your relationship

right now? >> obama: i consider hillary a strong friend. >> clinton: i mean, very warm, close. i think there's a sense of understanding that, you know, sometimes doesn't even take words, because we have similar views. we have similar experiences that, i think provide a bond that may seem unlikely to some, but has been really at the core of our relationship over the last four years. i mean, i've read a lot about other presidents, and i've, you know, been in the white house as a first lady. and i was a senator in the time of 9/11 and spent time in the white house under the bush administration. and i know how critical it is to really forge that sense of discipline that the president is referring to. are there going to be differences? yeah. deep differences? of course. you had a lot of strong-willed, -minded people. but the president deserves our

best judgment, our advice, and then he deserves us to stand with him and to execute. now, i've watched other administrations where there was pitched warfare between this cabinet secretary and another or this member of the white house. that's not good for the country. and it's not something that would have served this president. >> kroft: i mean, it's one thing to have disagreements between cabinet people. i spent time with both of you in the 2008 campaign. that was a very tough, bitter race, and i'm going to spare you reading some of the things that you said about each other during that campaign. >> clinton: please do. >> kroft: but how long did it take you to get over that? and when did it happen? >> obama: you know, it didn't take as long as i think people would perceive it. as i said once... once the primary was over, hillary worked very hard for me. bill worked very hard for me. so we were interacting on a fairly regular basis.

i think it was harder for the staffs, which is understandable because, you know, they get invested in this stuff in ways that i think the candidates maybe don't. you know, hillary mentioned, you know, part of our bond is, we've been through a lot of the same stuff. and part of being through the same stuff is getting whacked around in political campaigns, being criticized in the press. you know, we've both built some pretty thick skins, and, you know, sometimes our staffs don't go through that so they are taking umbrage and offense. and... ( chuckle ) and they're reading every blog and every tweet. you know, and most of the time, you know, hillary, i suspect, you know, handles this the same way i do, you know? we kind of have a block, a screen from a lot of the silliness that happens during presidential campaigns.

and so, for me, at least, you know, by the time... by the time hillary joined the administration, i felt very confident and comfortable in... in our working relationship. i think what did evolve was a friendship as opposed to just a professional relationship. friendships involve a sense of trust and being in the foxhole together, and that emerged during the course of months when we were making some very tough decisions. >> kroft: you said the staff took a little longer to ignore, to forget the campaign stuff. what about the spouses? is that an impertinent question? >> clinton: what i was going to... what i was going to say, steve, is, having been a spouse, having been a candidate, i think spouses take it much harder. you know, in a away... >> obama: there's no doubt. >> clinton: ...just as the president said, we're out there, and we're responding minute by minute. and you just don't have time to sit around and, you know, think about what, you know, some insult that you've felt you've suffered. i can remember, you know, watching my husband do debates. and i mean, i was like this.

and he was relaxed and everything like that. and then, when the shoes were on the other feet, all of a sudden, you know, this calm, cool guy who never was upset by anything is all of a sudden watching me. so, look, but that is just ancient history now. and it's ancient history because of who... the kind of people we all are, but also we're professionals. >> kroft: this administration, i mean, you've generally gotten high marks, particularly from the voters, for your handling of foreign policy. but there's no big singular achievement that... in the first four years that you can put your names on. what do you think the biggest success has been, foreign policy success, of the first term? >> obama: for us to be able to wind down one war, to be on the path of ending a second war, to do that in a way that honors the sac... enormous sacrifices our troops have made, to sustain the pressure on al qaeda and terrorist organizations so that

not only did we avoid a significant terrorist attack on the homeland, but we're able to dismantle the core leadership of al qaeda. that's all a consequence of the great work that hillary did and her team did and the state department did in conjunction with our national security team. >> kroft: what's the... i have to ask you, what's the date of expiration on this endorsement? >> clinton: oh, steve, what... you know... ( laughs ) you know... >> kroft: no, no, i have to ask that question. i mean, come on. i mean, you're sitting here together. everybody in town is talking about it already, and the inter... and this is... it's taking place. >> obama: you know, steve, i've got to tell you, the... you guys in the press are incorrigible. i was literally... ( laughs ) ...inaugurated four days ago, and you're talking about elections four years from now. >> clinton: yeah, and i am... as you know, steve, i am still secretary of state, so i'm out of politics.

and i'm forbidden from even hearing these questions. i think that... you know, look, obviously, the president and i care deeply about what's going to happen for our country in the future, and i don't think, you know, either he or i can make predictions about what's going to happen tomorrow or... or the next year. what we've tried to do over the last four years is get up every day, have a clear-eyed view of what's going on in the world. and i'm really proud of where we are. >> kroft: when we come back, the president and secretary clinton discuss the disaster in benghazi and the state of her health. >> cbs money watch update sponsored by: >> glor: good evening. the dow and the s&p begin the week at their highest levels in five years. the senate this week is expected

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>> kroft: hillary clinton's final days as secretary of state included one of her most difficult. on wednesday, she spent more than five hours being grilled on capital hill for the security failures in benghazi that led to the deaths of u.s. ambassador chris stevens and three other americans, the biggest diplomatic disaster of this administration. the accountability review led by admiral mike mullen and ambassador thomas pickering found, among many failures, that stevens' repeated requests for better security never made it to clinton's desk. and representatives and senators pressed her on whether the administration covered up the nature of the terrorist attack.

>> clinton: the fact is, we have four dead americans. was it because of a protest, or was it because of guys going out for a walk and deciding they'll go kill some americans? what difference... at this point, what difference does it make? it is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from happening again, senator. >> kroft: i want to talk about the hearings this week. you had... you had a very long day. also, how is your health? >> clinton: oh, it's great. it's great. now, you know, i still have some lingering effects from falling on my head and having the blood clot. but, you know, the doctors tell me that that will all recede. and so, thankfully, i'm, you know, looking forward to being at full speed. >> kroft: right. i noticed your glasses are... >> clinton: yeah, i have some lingering effects from the concussion that are decreasing and... and will disappear. but i have a lot of sympathy now when i pick up the paper and read about an athlete or one of our soldiers who's had traumatic brain injury. i'd never had anything like that

in my family. and so, you know, i'm... i'm very conscious of how lucky i was. >> kroft: you said during the hearings... i mean, you've accepted responsibility. you've accepted the very critical findings of admiral mullen and ambassador pickering. as the "new york times" put it, you accepted responsibility but not blame. do you feel guilty in any way, at a personal level? do you... do you blame yourself that you didn't know or that you should have known? >> clinton: well, steve, obviously, i deeply regret what happened, as i've said many i knew chris stevens. i sent him there originally. it was a great personal loss, to lose him and three other brave americans. but i also have looked back and tried to figure out what we could do so that nobody insofar is possible would be in this position again. and as the accountability review board pointed out, we did fix responsibility appropriately. and we're taking steps to implement that.

but we also live in a dangerous world, and, you know, the people i'm proud to serve and work with in our diplomatic and development personnel ranks, they know it's a dangerous and risky world. we just have to do everything we can to try to make it as secure as possible for them. >> obama: i think, you know, one of the things that humbles you as president-- i'm sure hillary feels the same way as secretary of state-- is that you realize that all you can do every single day is to figure out a direction, make sure that you are working as hard as you can to put people in place where they can succeed, ask the right questions, shape the right strategy. but it's going to be a team that both succeeds and fails. and it's a process of constant improvement, because the world is big and it is chaotic. you know, i... i remember bob

gates, you know, the first thing he said to me, i think maybe first week or two. and he, obviously, has been through seven presidents or something. and he says, "mr. president, one thing i can guarantee you is that, at this moment, somewhere, somehow, somebody in the federal government is screwing up." ( laughs ) and, you know, you're... and so, part of what you're trying to do is to constantly improve systems and accountability and transparency to minimize those mistakes and ensure success. it is a dangerous world, and that's part of the reason why we have to continue to get better. >> kroft: the biggest criticism of this team in the u.s. foreign policy from your political opposition has been what they say an abdication of the united states on the world stage, sort of a reluctance to become involved in another entanglement, an unwillingness

or what seems... appears to be an unwillingness to gauge big issues. syria, for example. >> obama: yeah, well... >> kroft: i mean, that... >> obama: well, moammar gaddafi probably does not agree with that assessment-- or at least if he was around, he wouldn't agree with that assessment. obviously, you know, we helped to put together and lay the groundwork for liberating libya. you know, when it comes to egypt, i think, had it not been for the leadership we showed, you might have seen a different outcome there. but also understanding that we do nobody a service when we leap before we look. where we, you know, take on things without having thought through all the consequences of it. and syria's a classic example of where our involvement... we want to make sure that not only does it enhance u.s. security, but also that it is doing right by the people of syria and

neighbors like israel that are going to be profoundly affected by it. and so, it's true sometimes that we don't just shoot from the hip. >> clinton: we live not only in a dangerous, but an incredibly complicated world right now with many different forces at work, both state-based and non-state-- technology and communications. and, you know, i... i'm... i'm older than the president. i don't want to surprise anybody by saying that. >> obama: but not by much. >> clinton: but, you know, i remember, you know, some of the speeches of eisenhower as a young girl, you know? you've got to be careful. you have to be thoughtful. you can't rush in, especially now, where it's more complex than it's been in decades. so, yes, are there what we call wicked problems like syria, which is the one you named? absolutely. and we are on the side of american values. we're on the side of freedom. we're on the side of the aspirations of all people to have a better life, have the opportunities that we are fortunate to have here.

but it's not always easy to perceive exactly what must be done in order to get to that outcome. so, you know, i certainly am grateful for the president's steady hand and hard questions and thoughtful analysis as to what we should and shouldn't do. >> obama: you know, there... there are transitions and transformations taking place all around the world. we are not going to be able to control every aspect of every transition and transformation. sometimes they're going to go sideways. sometimes, you know, there'll unintended consequences. and... and our job is to, number one, look after america's security and national interest; but number two, find were are those opportunities... where our intervention, our engagement can really make a difference and to be opportunistic about that. and that's something that i think hillary has done consistently, i think the team at the state department's done

consistently, and that's what i intend to continue to do over the next four years. >> kroft: thank you very much. >> obama: all right. >> >> welcome to the cbs sports update. novak djokovic made history today, becoming the first man in the open era to win three straight australian open titles with a victory over andy murray. in the nba, led by paul pierce's triple-double, boston held off miami to win in double overtime and the celtics confirmed rajon rondo is out for the season. and indiana beat minnesota stati in college basketball. for more news and information, go to cbssports.com. i did not want to think about that. relax, relax, relax. look at me, look at me. three words, dad -- e-trade financial consultants. so i can just go talk to 'em? just walk right in and talk to 'em. dude, those guys are pros. they'll hook you up with a solid plan.

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>> pelley: we have learned that u.s. anti-doping authorities

have given lance armstrong a deadline of february 6 to agree to confess all under oath. if he declines, we are told that his lifetime ban in sports will be irreversible. armstrong admitted to doping, for the first time, in an interview with oprah winfrey last week. but the director of the u.s. anti-doping agency, travis tygart, told us that armstrong did not tell the truth in that interview and left out the most important facts that investigators want to nail down. tygart is the official who pursued the armstrong investigation when others had given up. the evidence amassed by his anti-doping agency forced armstrong to surrender his titles, lose his sponsors and quit his charity. armstrong says he wants to return to sport. travis tygart holds the keys to that decision. so we asked him this week about armstrong's talk show confession.

you know, at one point in the interview he said that he was curious about the definition of the word cheater. and he looked it up in the dictionary and didn't think it necessarily applied to him. >> trvavis tygart: it's amazing. i mean scott you could go to almost any kindergarten in this country or frankly around the world and find kids playing tag or four square and ask them what cheating is. and every one of them will tell you it's breaking the rules of the game. no... no real athlete has to look up the definition of cheating. >> pelley: armstrong described doping as so routine, it was, "like the air in our tires and the water in our bottles." what did you think of that? >> tygart: it's just simply not true. and... and i think it's a pretty cowardly self interested justification or rationalization for his decision to defraud millions of people. >> pelley: the u.s. anti doping

agency, known as u.s.a.d.a., polices u.s. olympic sport. last october it issued a report that is called a "reasoned decision." it was a thousand pages of evidence that found that armstrong had run "the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport had ever seen." that was one of u.s.a.d.a.s conclusions that armstrong denied in his interview last week. he suggested that cycling in those years was a level playing field because everyone did it. he wasn't doing anything special. >> travis tygart: it's just simply not true. the access they had to inside information to how the tests work, what tests went in place at what time, special access to the laboratory, he... he was on an entirely different playing field than all the other athletes even if you assume all the other athletes had access to some doping products. >> pelley: armstrong admitted in the interview to doping throughout his seven tour de france victories.

he tried to make a comeback in 2009. he admitted the first seven, but those last two races in 2009 and 2010 he said he did not dope, he was racing clean. >> tygart: just contrary to the evidence. the evidence is clear. his blood tests in 2009, 2010, expert reports based on the variation of his blood values from those tests, one to a million chance that it was due to something other than doping. >> pelley: you have to wonder why, if he admits to doping in the first seven tour de france races, why he would proclaim his innocence in 2009 and 2010? >> tygart: i think it stops the criminal conspiracy and protects him and the others that helped him pull off this scheme from potential criminal prosecution if that was in fact true. >> pelley: how does that help him in that way? >> tygart: there's a five-year statute on a fraud criminal charge. so the five years today would have been expired.

however, if the last point of his doping, as we alleged and proved in our reasoned decision, was in 2010, then the statute has not yet expired, and he potentially could be charged with a criminal violation for conspiracy to defraud. >> pelley: the famous u.s. postal team was fueled by dope. there was an illegal blood booster called e.p.o., there was testosterone, and a banned technique called blood doping in which riders store fresh blood and transfuse it into their bodies during a race. records were broken, victories spoke for themselves and, for a decade, no one spoke of anything else. >> tygart: the first break that finally cracked the code of silence or the omerta that existed in the sport was when several witnesses in the spring of 2010 came forward and they told us their stories. >> pelley: you used the word

"omerta." that's a mafia term. >> tygart: it is a mafia term. and i think there were parts of this scheme that were run like a mafia. >> pelley: in 2010, the u.s. department of justice opened a criminal investigation. armstrong's teammates were forced to testify, subpoenaed by a grand jury. one of them was tyler hamilton. >> pelley: one of the things that is so amazing about all of this is how long it was kept quiet. how many people knew and didn't say? >> hamilton: yeah, people were afraid of lance armstrong. people were afraid. >> pelley: but what is to be afraid of? >> hamilton: it's the machine, you know, the lance machine. he's got a lot of connections. if you go against lance armstrong, your... your days in cycling are done. >> pelley: the testimony of hamilton and others before the grand jury in los angeles was secret until hamilton told his story in an interview on "60 minutes." >> hamilton: there was e.p.o., there was testosterone.

and i did see a transfusion, a blood transfusion. >> pelley: three weeks after that story in 2011, hamilton was in aspen, colorado, working his way through a crowded bar. >> hamilton: turned to my right, and it was lance armstrong. >> pelley: so he stops you cold? >> hamilton: stops me cold. >> pelley: and says what? >> hamilton: well, first he asked how much "60 minutes" had paid me to... to do that interview. >> pelley: answer: nothing. >> hamilton: obviously, nothing, yeah. the biggest thing he said is, you know, "we are going to make your life a living, 'effing' hell, both in the courtroom and out." >> pelley: he was, at that moment, the target of a federal investigation. and you were a witness in that federal investigation? >> hamilton: yeah, yeah. >> pelley: intimidating a witness is a federal crime. did you feel intimidated? >> hamilton: i did, i did, i did. >> pelley: the grand jury heard from at least a dozen postal riders. there was testimony that a team bus had been pulled over in france while the riders inside were hooked up to banned blood

transfusions. some testified that riders used makeup to cover needle marks. the secret grand jury proceeding went on for two years but in 2012 the u.s. attorney dropped the case without explanation. >> hamilton: i was really angry. i knew... you know, i'm not a rocket scientist, but i knew justice wasn't being served here. >> pelley: you'd gone to the grand jury. you'd told the truth. and the government dropped the case. you're out there twisting in the wind by yourself. >> hamilton: yeah, yeah. and i knew a lot of other people had testified and it was all gonna be sealed. and everybody was just going to go along like it had never happened. >> pelley: usada had been monitoring the investigation and tygart thought that the evidence gathered by the u.s. attorney was overwhelming. why do you think he dropped the case? >> travis: i don't know, scott. it's a good question and one that if you find the answer, let me know.

>> pelley: armstrong congratulated the government for closing the investigation and kept repeating what he told cbs sports in 2005. >> lance armstrong: explain to me how we've passed so many tests if we are so dirty? and they don't want to answer that question. and that's not fair. >> pelley: but tygart did want to answer that question and he began an investigation. he convinced riders to testify to usada. he looked at armstrong's tests from his first tour de france victory in 1999 and found e.p.o. then, a swiss lab director, marcial saugy, said that after he got a suspicious test result on armstrong in 2001, he was directed to meet armstrong and his coach johan bruyneel. saugy said the meeting was set up by the international cycling union, which oversees the sport. >> tygart: he was instructed by

u.c.i. to meet with lance armstrong and johan bruyneel and explain the e.p.o. testing process, which he told us was unprecedented. and i asked him, "did you give lance armstrong and johan bruyneel the keys to defeat the e.p.o. test?" and he nodded his head yes. >> pelley: tygart believes armstrong had influence over the u.c.i. lance armstrong made a generous donation to the international cycling union of $100,000. do you think that was meant to influence them? >> tygart: i don't know. obviously, totally inappropriate. >> pelley: why inappropriate? lance armstrong's trying to support anti-doping in sport. that's what he would tell you. >> tygart: it's an inherent conflict of interest. during that interview last week, armstrong was asked about that 2001 swiss test. >> armstrong: that story isn't

true. there was no positive test. there was no paying off of the lab. there was no secret meeting with the lab director. >> oprah winfrey: the u.c.i. didn't make that go away. >> armstrong: nope. >> tygart: he exonerated essentially the u.c.i. and our information is... and the evidence is different than that. >> pelley: what was it about what armstrong said in the interview about u.c.i. that you thought was wrong? >> tygart: i think their involvement was a lot deeper in him pulling off this heist than he was willing to admit to. >> pelley: and tygart told us armstrong tried to make a similar donation to u.s.a.d.a. tygart made that revelation during our first interview earlier this month which was for "60 minutes sports," our program on the showtime network. armstrong was asked about that in the interview last week. >> winfrey: were you trying to pay off u.s.a.d.a.? >> armstrong: no, that is not true.

>> winfrey: that's not true? >> armstrong: that is not true. >> tygart: that's just not true. i received a phone call from one of his closest associates and they offered us the-- the money. >> pelley: you took this phone call yourself? >> tygart: yes >> pelley: and armstrong's representative said what to you precisely? >> tygart: "lance wants to make a financial donation to u.s.a.d.a." >> pelley: who was this representative? >> tygart: it's one of his closest representatives. i've told the federal government in its investigation on the civil fraud side, so i don't think it would be appropriate now to name the name because it's still one of his closest representatives. >> pelley: there was no mistaking the purpose of that call? >> tygart: absolutely not. >> pelley: influence and intimidation were key, according to tygart, to getting riders onboard and keeping them in line. >> pelley: the impression that armstrong makes in the interview was that he was doping, yes, but he was just one of the guys.

>> tygart: he was the boss. the evidence is clear he was one of the ringleaders of this conspiracy that pulled off this grand heist that defrauded using tens of millions of taxpayer dollars, defrauded millions of sports fans and his fellow competitors. >> pelley: there was a rider on the team named christian vande velde. what happened to him? >> tygart: lance called christian to his apartment and lance verbally accosted christian for not fully being on the doping program to maximize christian's performance because his performance was not very good at that point. >> pelley: and christian vande velde's understanding was after that meeting that if he didn't dope, what would happen? >> tygart: lance made it crystal clear as did the doctor who was sitting there that you better fully get on the program or you're gonna be off the team. >> pelley: another u.s. postal service rider named frankie andreu testified that after he refused to dope, he was fired and armstrong destroyed his career. >> tygart: it was tough. all these witnesses were scared

of the repercussions of them simply telling the truth. >> pelley: what could lance armstrong do to them? >> tygart: incinerate them. >> pelley: former teamate levi leipheimer felt the heat. leipheimer said in his sworn affidavit that he came to a cycling dinner after his testimony. leipheimer says armstrong was there and sent leipheimer's wife a text. it read "run, don't walk." >> pelley: what did she take it to mean? >> tygart: it's a veiled threat. knowing her husband had just testified, truthfully, in front of the grand jury and had told citizens of this country about this great fraud; that it was a message, "you better run." >> pelley: your investigation showed that there were personal threats made against riders who had decided to come clean. i wonder if there were any

threats against you. >> tygart: there were, scott. >> pelley: these threats came from where? >> tygart: e-mails, letters. >> pelley: anonymous? >> tygart: yeah. >> pelley: can you remember any of the lines from the e-mails or the letters? >> tygart: the worst was probably putting a bullet in my head. >> pelley: did you take that seriously? >> tygart: absolutely. turned it over to the f.b.i. to investigate it, which they are doing. >> pelley: tygart's agency was also threatened. the c.e.o. of the livestrong foundation, armstrong's cancer charity, lobbied against usada before congress. members of congress and 23 california state representatives called for an investigation of the agency's practices and its taxpayer funding. and yet, you chose to go ahead? you were gambling the fate of usada itself on this one case. >> tygart: if we're unwilling to take this case and help this

sport move forward, that we're here for naught. we should shut down. and if they want to shut us down for doing our job on behalf of clean athletes, and the integrity of competition, then shut us down. >> pelley: last year, when tygart made his evidence public, armstrong had the option of a hearing and confronting the witnesses, but he chose not to fight, and he was handed that lifetime ban. in last week's interview, armstrong said the ban was unfair considering that riders who testified against him were banned for only six months. >> tygart: if you traffic, if you distribute, if you possess, if you use the number of substances that he used over the period of time that he used, then you cover it up and you refuse to come in and be part of the solution, the rules mandate a lifetime ban. but the lowest his ban could go under the rules would be to an eight-year suspension. >> pelley: what does lance

armstrong have to do for there to be a possibility that usada's lifetime ban would be lifted? >> tygart: he would have to come in just like all 11 of his teammates did and testify truthfully about all of those who were involved with him pulling off this grant heist. >> pelley: armstrong is facing a lawsuit that alleges he defrauded the federal government when he lied about cheating to get that postal service sponsorship. the suit was filed by former teammate floyd landis, and, in the next few weeks, the federal government is expected to decide whether to join landis in the suit. the potential penalty for armstrong and his business partners is $90 million. the department of justice has not made a decision about whether to join that lawsuit against lance armstrong. what do you think they should do? >> tygart: i think they have to join the suit. i mean, we were surprised the criminal case didn't go forward based on the evidence that... that we had seen and generated through our investigation.

so, we'll be, you know, once again shocked if they don't join the suit. i think a jury should have an opportunity to decide whether the tens of millions of taxpayer dollars that were defrauded by this team and lance armstrong and his associates, whether or not the government should be paid back for that. >> pelley: as we reported, tygart has given armstrong a deadline of february 6 to agree to tell all under oath. amstrong's lawyers have now replied to that, saying armstrong cannot appear by that date and, rather than usada, they say armstrong is more likely to tell his story to the international cycling union, the same organization that tygart believes was complicit in hiding armstrong's doping. if lance armstrong had prevailed in this case and you had failed, what would the effect on sport have been? >> tygart: it... it would have been huge because athletes would have known that some are too big to fail.

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